Curse

Snograt · May 31, 2010, 12:20 PM // 12:20

This is probably a problem with no reasonable resolution, but what the heck.

After several years of struggling with my vastly overpriced pain-in-the-butt QX6700 system (long term Tech vets will remember the overheating thread) - I stumped up what little cash I had available on a Core i3 barebones system - http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/s...tml?MBB-I3554G

£280 (~406US$) seemed like a very good deal for the case, mobo, memory and processor and, indeed, it runs very well.

But.

As I was putting in two 500GB HDDs, a DVD-R and a GTX260, the PSU was woefully inadequate. Not so much in power (it was a 500W) but more in the lack of connectors - no 6-pin PCI-E power connectors and only the one SATA plug.

So, in with the trusty old 750W CoolerMaster and off we go.

Problem 1: This took me hours to figure out. The system would not so much as POST as long as the two HDDs were connected on the same cable. It would boot with either one on that cable but not both. Separate cables sorted that out, but what the hell?

Problem 2: It's a micro ATX. My fault, I didn't check the specs fully. I hate micros. The GTX260 covers SATA ports 0, 1 and 2. My HDDs are therefore connected to ports 3 and 4 and the DVD to 5. Port 4 is configured as a slave channel. Why the hell does SATA need a slave channel?

Problem 3: The power switch shuts down Windows but doesn't power down the system.

Problem 4: The reset switch ...doesn't.

Problem 5: Sometimes the USB mouse and keyboard aren't recognised at the login screen so I can't ...login. Only sometimes, though. Usually there's no problem.

Problem 6: (Very minor niggle) When making changes to the BIOS, thestandard F10 to save changes does just that - then shuts down the system instead of rebooting.

So, are these just minor niggles that I'm going to learn to live with, or is there anything fundamentally wrong?

Quaker · May 31, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Problems with old system + problems with new system + same power supply = ?

Problem 1 - power supply? Have you tried using the 500watt power supply? You should be able to find adapters to plug everything in. You should at least be able to connect everything but the video card, so if you have some old video card (even PCI) lying around, or the mobo has on-board video, you can at least see if some of the other problems go away.

Problem 2 - any chance of using right-angle SATA connectors on some of the blocked ports? As far as the "slave" designation goes - I'm not sure but SATA ports may have a master/slave arrangement on some logic level, but it doesn't matter as far as which drive is connected where.

Problem 3 - could be a BIOS setting or could be the power supply.

Problem 4 - could be a bad switch on the case or a bad cable from the switch to the mobo. Try shorting across the reset terminals on the mobo and see if it will reset. If that doesn't work, it could be a problem with the mobo or - surprise - the power supply.

Problem 5 - possibly the timing of the "power good" signal from the Power Supply.

Problem 6 - could be just a "feature" of the motherboard's BIOS or a problem with .... wait for it... the power supply.

Snograt · May 31, 2010, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern...

Elder III · May 31, 2010, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

I think I'm beginning to see a pattern...

I think Quaker knows his shiznitz too

Lord Sojar · Jun 01, 2010, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Ahem... *slaps Snoggy*

You are a tech Snoggles, wut r u doin?

Me thinks rails on your PSU are very unstable. As for power button, that's a control in Windows settings. As for reset switch, check your leads going to the mobo, and make sure you didn't switch + and - around. The Mobo manual will specify which way it needs to be. Colored cable = (+) and white = (-) in 95% of cases.

As for the BIOS tweaking, my P55 board does the same thing. I believe it might have something to do with the way the H55 and P55 chipsets handle CMOS settings on certain systems, but that might be a way out there guess.

Snograt · Jun 01, 2010, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Instability sounds about right, Rah. Last night it shut down and powered off with no problems at all. The FP connectors were wired up by the manufacturer (well, system builder, I guess) which is just as well cos I hate FP connectors with a vengeance.

It feels like the system is "bedding itself in" - all the minor niggles are gradually sorting themselves out.

I can live without a reset switch - it's always been an "I give up" button anyway ^_^

Oh, and to answer a Quaker response I missed - the reson I didn't use the 500W was that, even with adaptors, there wouldn't be enough connectors without adding splitters, which I don't like. Also, the 500 has only 2 rails as opposed to the 4 on the 750.

I like rails.

moriz · Jun 01, 2010, 02:34 PM // 14:34

heh, my XFX 650W PSU only has one 12V rail... that's rated for 60A. my one rail >>> your four rails.

Quaker · Jun 01, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

As for reset switch, check your leads going to the mobo, and make sure you didn't switch + and - around.

Ahem ..... *slaps Rahja* - What r u doin?

The reset switch is just.... a switch - basically, a piece of metal that shorts across the two pins. There is no + and - for the reset or power switches (or speaker). That only applies to the LEDs.
(I realize that some mobos will mark a +/-, but that only matters if you connect some sort of active circuit to the pins - not just a simple pushbutton.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Oh, and to answer a Quaker response I missed - the reason I didn't use the 500W was that, even with adapters, there wouldn't be enough connectors without adding splitters, which I don't like.

I wasn't suggesting you use the 500watt permanently, just that you connect it temporarily to see if that makes some of the problems go away. In that case, you can use splitters to "get er done".

P.s - rails are not a good thing.

Rahja edit: WHAAAA, I did it again, edited your post instead of quoting it! I SWEAR THAT BUTTON IS MOVING!

Snograt · Jun 01, 2010, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Oh, I see.

I said I like rails - they used to be considered a good thing and I tend to hang on to techy superstition

Lord Sojar · Jun 02, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Ahem ..... *slaps Rahja* - What r u doin?

The reset switch is just.... a switch - basically, a piece of metal that shorts across the two pins. There is no + and - for the reset or power switches (or speaker). That only applies to the LEDs.
(I realize that some mobos will mark a +/-, but that only matters if you connect some sort of active circuit to the pins - not just a simple pushbutton.)

I wasn't suggesting you use the 500watt permanently, just that you connect it temporarily to see if that makes some of the problems go away. In that case, you can use splitters to "get er done".

P.s - rails are not a good thing.

There is still a ground for the reset switch, last I checked... *consults case/mobo manual for details*

Rails are on every PSU! @_@

3.3, 5.0, 12.0 rails. @_@

Edit: Nevermind, I fail at reading comprehension, probably from reading all the BS in Riverside.

Uh... that depends Quaker. At certain wattage ratings, PSUs benefit from multiple rails. A 620w PSU is best with 3x 12v rails that can merge.

Elder III · Jun 03, 2010, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I like rails too, better overall stability in my experience.... although a single rail with tons of amperage is nice for a hard core overclock.....

Quaker · Jun 03, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sojar

There is still a ground for the reset switch, last I checked... *consults case/mobo manual for details*

That might be true in some rare instances or in case/mobo combos that are proprietary, but for 99% of third-party cases the reset switch is just a pushbutton with two leads coming off of it. (because they can't be 100% sure that the reset function on the motherboard goes to ground.)

Quote:

Uh... that depends Quaker. At certain wattage ratings, PSUs benefit from multiple rails. A 620w PSU is best with 3x 12v rails that can merge.

I don't know under what circumstances multiple rails would be "best". Multiple (12v) rails are primarily a cost vs performance thing. Plus it has been suggested that some jurisdictions put a limit on the available power from any one rail. But....
3x 12v rails that can "merge" is essentially (schematically) the same as one rail using multiple regulators in parallel.
You'll notice that many of the newer, high performance power supplies have only a single 12v rail. A single rail negates any need to balance the load between rails, but, of course, it needs to be properly designed to reliably handle the current with proper filtering etc.
It is (or was) cheaper to use several lower power regulators than to build one large one, but it is not necessarily better.

Lord Sojar · Jun 03, 2010, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder III

I like rails too, better overall stability in my experience.... although a single rail with tons of amperage is nice for a hard core overclock.....

Indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I don't know under what circumstances multiple rails would be "best". Multiple (12v) rails are primarily a cost vs performance thing. Plus it has been suggested that some jurisdictions put a limit on the available power from any one rail. But....
3x 12v rails that can "merge" is essentially (schematically) the same as one rail using multiple regulators in parallel.
You'll notice that many of the newer, high performance power supplies have only a single 12v rail. A single rail negates any need to balance the load between rails, but, of course, it needs to be properly designed to reliably handle the current with proper filtering etc.
It is (or was) cheaper to use several lower power regulators than to build one large one, but it is not necessarily better.

That's 100% correct my dear sir.

The main appeal of multiple 12v rails was stability. In a non overclocked system, it tends to give more stability, but for any kind of substantial overclock, a single high amperage 12v rail is superior.

There are some more modern power supplies (Enermax comes to mind) that use multiple 12v rails for stability at loads below 80%. They carry a slightly higher cost than their non hybrid brethren, but they do offer the best of both worlds, so to speak. My next PSU purchase will likely be a hybrid rail solution.

Snograt · Jun 03, 2010, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I love it. I have a habit of posting moronic questions that generate answers that swerve off at a tangent and teach me loads of stuff I didn't know before ^_^

I like rails because railgun

Quaker · Jun 04, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I like rails because of choo-choo trains.